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Talk:Master (Forsaken Masters)

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Hideout

Hideout should be a different page - there's too much information that distracts from Masters here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ddh8 (talkcontribs) 16:18, 26 August 201 (UTC)

Isn't it already? HideoutVini (t|c) 16:29, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Master attitudes towards each other

Just for fun.

Master Attitude towards
Haku Elreon Catarina Tora Vagan Vorici Zana
Haku - - + + + +
Elreon - ~ + ~ ~ -
Catarina - - - + + ~
Tora + - ~ + - -
Vagan + + - ~ - ~
Vorici + - - - ~ +
Zana - - - - - -

--Evil4Zerggin (talk) 09:46, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Is there a point to list the locations where they can appear?

I don't think there is a reason to list the location where the Masters' quests appear. I have seen the Masters appear in many locations that weren't listed and give completely different quests. How about removing the possible locations of Masters (leaving only the minimum level of area and noting that Zana can appear only in maps) and the possible locations of their quests, leaving only they types of quests they can give? The experience they give seems to be purely dependent on area level, not on the quest giver or the nature of the quest.

--DarkUknown 13:57, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Yup, makes sense. I think people were adding them because there was a general uncertainty about where they can spawn. It seems that once you've reached the right area/area level, they'll pretty much spawn anywhere. Iamacyborg (talk) 15:41, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
That seems to be the case. I think it's safe to remove the table. —Vini (t|c) 17:08, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Gems and Master Level

Has anyone noticed any correlation between gem availability and master level? Seems like something that could be in place. Iamacyborg (talk) 15:43, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

General Overview

I redone this overview today to include most of the general features of the masters. I am a noob wiki table maker, can someone center align the Location column, eg Act 1, Act 2, Act 3. --1BLOOBERRY (talk) 16:11, 1 September 2014 (UTC) One more thing, can someone also make the "Master" bar/box on the same level as the other categories and make the "General Overview" stretch the entire table over the top. Thanks. --1BLOOBERRY (talk) 16:14, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Master mission experience

How about creating a page "Master Mission Experience" to put a list with area-levels and the amount of master experience gained from a mission in that area? Since GGG didn't implement something to simply write into the chat "x master experience points gained!" it's a bit hard to know how much exp you gained unless you write down the total value before and after the mission and calculate it yourself. E.g. when I did a mission in an area-level 48 area I took a screenshot before and after. The difference is 1759 points. This might help players to find areas to search for masters in which are best suited for their character's current level. //Hurri04 (talk) 16:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit: I just did another mission, this time in a level 72 area and gained 4675 points. With enough data it would be possible to create a graph and determine the function of these values.

Navbox Masters

I attempted to move this graphic to the top as it gives the page more "flavor". How can we rid the spoiler box surrounding it? This page would look alot better with that graphic for navigation. Any thoughts? --1BLOOBERRY (talk) 05:43, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Masters unique items for sale

"Thanks for contacting Support. I can't confirm if they can drop almost any unique, however I can confirm that they can drop unique items from outside their normal item types, which can include unique maps being sold by masters other than Zana."

Something about this should be included on the master unique items for sale section, people often argue about say, Haku can't sell a Shavs because it isn't listed on the wiki. just because no one has found it, What i gather from this is that all masters can sell any "normal" unique, excluding special cases such as song of the sirens, atziri uniques, recipe uniques etc (until found anyway) --eleziel 2 January 2015

I had a feeling that might be the case. Would it be best to merely say that masters can sell uniques and then list the general exceptions? Iamacyborg (talk) 13:04, 2 January 2015 (UTC)
Having the prices there is useful but there could just be a single list for all masters, possibly on the main Master page somewhere at the bottom and list the uniques that can't be sold by masters --eleziel 2 January 2015
Yep, and potentially also on the individual item page as well. Iamacyborg (talk) 16:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

I was making some statistics regarding the uniques they sell, trying to determine the probability that they'll have a unique. Assuming binomial distribution, the chance of getting a unique is 25% ± 5% (somewhere between 20% and 30%). Should I write it into the vendor column in reputation section (something like The chance is roughly 25%)? I'll update this once I get more data to decrease the uncertainty.--DarkUnknown (talk) 11:01, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

Is this only for successful missions? After my guild mate pointed it out to me, I started recording L8 missions for a while and we were getting around 33% uniques with successful missions but only about 10% with failed. That was a pretty small sample size, esp of the fails, but it seemed to be pointing towards mission sucess increasin the odds. --Qetuth-(talk) 05:35, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
The inventory is reset regardless of your performance and I did not consider the possibility that it might depend on it. I was recording any missions, I did not write down if they were successful or not. What you say could be true, I can't remember getting a unique after failing a mission, but that's just anecdotal evidence. --DarkUnknown (talk) 07:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
My results don't seem to match yours, but I still need more data. I can't conclude anything for failures (I haven't failed enough frequently), but for successes, the odds that they sell a unique seems to be 27% ± 4% (somewhere between 23% and 31%). I'll report later when I get more data. For a mix of successes and failures (unknown number of failures, but there are some), the result is 27% ± 2%, but that might be quite an inaccurate result. --DarkUnknown (talk) 09:19, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
More testing shows that the chance that they sell a unique item after success is 24% ± 2% (somewhere between 22% and 26%). For a mix of successes and failures (about 10% failures), it's 22 ± 1% (somewhere between 21% and 23%). I haven't recorded enough failures to have exact numbers about the chance to get a unique after failure (14% ± 17% is not a good statistic). So far, it seems that the chance to get a unique is indeed lower after a failure. --DarkUnknown (talk) 12:02, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

I have done a larger statistical study about the chance to get a unique from masters. If the mission is successful, the chance is 25% (my result was 24.9% ± 0.4%, probably a small systematic error reduced the result a tiny bit because I could have failed to notice the unique). If the mission isn't successful, the chance is significantly lower (8% ± 4%). It was by recording the outcomes of on 341 dailies. I think that these results are conclusive enough to be written somewhere on the page. --DarkUnknown (talk) 12:29, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Possibly also include a link to your working so people can see how the conclusion has come about. Iamacyborg (talk) 14:36, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

This is my data so far (can't find a way to make a spoiler or something):


Success - None
Success - None
Success - Craghead
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - Rebuke of the Vaal
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Ungil's Harmony
Success - None
Success - Forbidden Taste
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Dusktoe
Success - None
Success - Maelstrom of Chaos
Success - None
Success - Stone of Lazhwar
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Ungil's Gauche
Success - Death's Harp
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Tabula Rasa
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - The Three Dragons
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Nomic's Storm
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Lochtonial Caress
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Goldrim
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Rainbowstride
Failure - None
Success - Occultist's Vestinent
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Midnight Bargain
Success - Belt of the Deceiver
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Hyrri's Bite
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Sentari's Answer
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Bones of Ullr
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Infernal Mantle
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Chober Chaber
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Cloak of Defiance
Success - None
Success - Ondar's Clasp
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Redbeak
Success - None
Success - Wondertrap
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Dusktoe
Success - Acton's Nightmare
Success - None
Success - Quill Rain
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - The Anvil
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Infractem
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - Doedre's Tenure
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - Le Heup of All
Success - Limbsplit
Success - None
Success - Araku Tiki
Success - None
Success - Lightbane Raiment
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - Eye of Chayula
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - The Magnate
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - Fairgraves' Tricorne
Success - None
Success - Voidhome
Success - Death's Oath
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Doedre's Elixir
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Oro's Sacrifice
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Bloodboil
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Wanderlust
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Pyre
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Aurseize
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Nomic's Storm
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Wurm's Molt
Success - Heatshiver
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Shavronne's Pace
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Terminus Est
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - The Coward's Trial
Success - None
Success - Karui Ward
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Mokou's Embrace
Success - None
Success - Craghead
Success - Brightbeak
Success - Lochtonial Caress
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Quill Rain
Success - None
Success - Limbsplit
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Nomic's Storm
Success - Saffell's Frame
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Lioneye's Paws
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Atziri's Mirror
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Sin Trek
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Bronn's Lithe
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Kaltenhalt
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Zahndethus' Cassock
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Ahsrend
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Reverbation Rod
Success - Perandus Blazon
Success - Honourhome
Success - Alpha's Howl
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Honourhome
Success - None
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Ondar's Clasp
Success - None
Success - None
Success - Eye of Chayula
Success - Lioneye's Paws
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Jaws of Agony
Success - Dusktoe
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Failure - None
Success - None
Success - Wurm's Molt
Success - None

If there was like 100 times more data, it could be possible the determine the probability what is the chance to get a specific unique if a unique is obtained.

I have also created this script to compute the probabilities automatically:

#include <stdio.h>
#include <string.h>
#include <stdlib.h>

#define MAX_LENGTH 50

void readEntry(char* contents, char* result) {
	int pos;
	for (pos = 0; pos < MAX_LENGTH; pos++) {
		if (contents[pos] == '-') {
			pos++;
			while (contents[pos] == ' ') pos++;
			strcpy(result, contents + pos);
			unsigned int i;
			for (i = 0; i < MAX_LENGTH; i++) if (result[i] == '\n' || result[i] == '\r' || result[i] == ' ') {
				result[i] = 0;
				break;
			}
			break;
		}
	}
}

int main(int argc, char *argv[])
{
	FILE* file;
	if (argc == 1) {
		file = fopen ("probabilities.txt", "r");
		printf("Reading file probabilities.txt...\n");
	}
	else {
		file = fopen (argv[1], "r");
		printf("Reading file %s...\n", argv[1]);
	}
	char contents[MAX_LENGTH];
	int failures = 0;
	int successes = 0;
	int items_failures = 0;
	int items_successes = 0;
	while (fgets(contents, MAX_LENGTH, file) != NULL) {
		if (strstr(contents, "Success") || strstr(contents, "success") || strstr(contents, "S -") || strstr(contents, "s -") || strstr(contents, "S-") || strstr(contents, "s-")) {
			successes++;
			char result[MAX_LENGTH];
			readEntry(contents, result);
			if (strcmp(result, "None") && strcmp(result, "none") && strcmp(result, "N") && strcmp(result, "n")) {
				items_successes++;
			}
		}
		if (strstr(contents, "Failure") || strstr(contents, "failure") || strstr(contents, "F -") || strstr(contents, "f -") || strstr(contents, "F-") || strstr(contents, "f-")) {
			failures++;
			char result[MAX_LENGTH];
			readEntry(contents, result);
			if (strcmp(result, "None") && strcmp(result, "none") && strcmp(result, "N") && strcmp(result, "n")) {
				items_failures++;
			}
		}
	}
	fclose(file);
	float chance_after_success = (float)items_successes / (float)successes;
	float chance_after_failure = (float)items_failures / (float)failures;
	printf("After a success, the chance is (%.3g+-%.2g)%%\n", (chance_after_success * 100), 100 / ((1 - chance_after_success) * successes));
	printf("After a failure, the chance is (%.3g+-%.2g)%%\n", (chance_after_failure * 100), 100 / ((1 - chance_after_failure) * failures));
	return 0;
}